Make it Up With India
By Rohail Butt • Sep 29th, 2008 • Category: Politics, Worth A Second Look • 19 Comments •The attitude of almost all of the Pakistani political leaders have always remained soft towards India, and every one of them always wanted to have a lasting relationship with India based on mutual respect, peace and progress ensuring stability and certainty in the region to tap on to the billion of still unexplored potential sources.
These wishes on the part of Pakistani politicos have always been dampened by the hawks in establishment. Though it is also true that politicos have also made their blunders, but the real fault lies with the decades of mistrust and misconceptions between the two neighbours, who always are termed as arch-rivals.
India is more to blame as it always wanted to play bully in the region, and don’t want to treat Pakistan as it’s equal oand want to subjugate it. Pakistan doesn’t want dictation and want to have equal standing with India, because size doesn’t matter. First Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, then Benazir, and then Nawaz Sharif tried to thaw the cold relations with India, but every time some Siachin or Kargil happened, and the government was foiled. The response from the Indian politicians was also wicket and not so promising and honest, that only added to the widespread speculation that Indian is not to be trusted for peace and trust.
President Asif Ali Zardari’s meeting with Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh during the session of UN’s general assembly has rekindled the hope for peace and progress. Pakistan and India have agreed to resume trade through land routes and decided to open four points for this purpose, including two along the Line of Control (LoC) in Kashmir, while two would be on the international borders. Both leaders have also found some common grounds for mutual walk in the future, but they must be very much candid and trustworthy with each other, because hidden hands at both sides and at the international level would try to derail the process. India’s buddy Israel would never want happy and smiling Pakistanis and Indians going hand in hand.
Pakistan has agreed to most of India’s sensitive demands, including one to investigate the bombing of the Indian embassy in Kabul. That is good, and India should retaliate by clearing it’s massive presence in Afghanistan and plethora of consulates along with the Durand Line. Terrorism is today in Pakistan with full forces and tomorrow it will reach India, so it’s not just Pakistan’s problem. India has to support Pakistan for it’s own good and for the future of its’ generations. Violence, hostility and terrorism has no place in the vision people on both sides share regarding the bilateral relations, and must be visibly and verifiably prevented by the leaders. India should also show big heart and do some thing bold and just on the Kashmir issue.
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Which world are you guys living in…
lets trade with India… the profiteers are already doing this; it was not so long ago that we sold our wheat to them and crated a shortage in our own land , resulting in importing wheat at more than three times the price.Oh, yes we are going to buy all their old Tata buses, nice move .
Lets also forget all the trouble they are creating on our northern border, as they are going to open a few bus routes .
All this pales as to their true motive, which is to get a gas pipe line from Iran through Pakistan and if we have to agree to this then lets not settle for a few trinkets in return.
Its not for US or China to grant an equal status to India - its for India to grab the initiative. In the same vein its not for India to treat Pakistan as an equal - its for Pakistan to stand up to be counted.
In treacherous times it is difficult to trust even oneself - but to paint a reasonable picture, Indians see no value or virtue in subjugating Pakistan or anyone for that matter. Trust me - thats not even on the radar of a common Indian. And you see Israel as an ally to India ? My question to you is - For a number of decades you were more than friendly with the US of A which is the greatest benefactor of Israel - why didn’t you cut off your otherwise lucrative ties with Uncle Sam then purely on the basis of ideology ? Will I be wrong if I perceive it as something which smacks of hypocrisy ?
#2 Gaurav: “………..smacks of hypocrisy?” What an understatement! we personify it, and are almost a synonym for hypocrisy. Gaurav, if ever you have problem explaining the word, just describe our character and the point will be made.
India Vs Pakistan. I think both are not innocent. In last 60 years, on both sides poison has been injected in the minds of people against each other. Histories in the text books are molded according to their own wishes and agenda. How we can expect a U-turn in the perception of both side people in few years, even still no sincere effort is done from both side to clean minds of their people.
India takes 5 seconds to blame ISI for every mishap in their country and Pakistan takes 15 seconds to blame RAW on many occasions. There is no doubt that it is difficult time for Pakistan these days and Indians are totally trying to take advantage of this moment.
Anyway, apart from balming each other… Both side civilians don’t want any kind of tension in this whole south asian region. I met so many Indians and no body supported that Pakistan should be ditched because they know that once the war will come in this region then India is also not safe. Every body who spoke to me showed real concern against USA because they believe that the real enemy of this region is USA and they totally want permanent base in this region to contro China and India economic growth.
I wish that both side consider wishes of the people and comply accordingly. Otherwise this war is not going to end in Pakistan even.
From the days of SEATO/CENTO, you have been an ally of USA.
Your nation betrayed TALIBAN which is your own creation when americans started war on terror under Bush.
We are friendly with Isreal.Is it a sin?It gives us latest military equipment and we are thankful to that nation.
We have more Muslims in India than your nation and we donot hide our communal riots.But when it happenned,not a single Gujerathi muslim ran to Pakistan but they ran to mumbai.
I agree kashmiri Muslims want independence or accession to pakistan.Let them go to pakistan but they will not go but will ask for sharia law and condemn secular democracy of India.
NOW COMING TO USA, YOUR AMBASSADOR IN WASHINGTON IS AN AMERICAN NATIONAL. Your former Primeminister is an american national.
THINK OF KARACHI,BOMBAY OF 60 YEARS BACK. WAS THERE A TOWN CALLED DUBAI,SHARJAH ETC Let palestenians fight their battles with isreal. isreal has attacked and taken their land and killing them.Why not. Saudies or malaysians go and fight there for Muslim Umma.Why only pakistanies?
By the way YOUR ARMY UNDER ZIA-UL HAQ WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR MASSACARING PALESTENIANS IN JORDAN AND WHICH WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR CREATION OF BLACK SEPTEMBER GROUP.
Mr Johann, your now a days comments simply says one thing… INDIA is as innocent as a new born baby.
Being a sensible citizen, you must remain unbiased, as most of our commentors are. By just blaming on Pakistan, Saudi Arab and Malaysia…. problems won’t solve. Be realistic and accept that dirt is spread by your very own Israel and India also. If not, then what India is digging from west borders of Pakistan. Take responsibility that India is playing a role of Hyena… who always walks after Lion and waits that once lion will attack on the pray then he will eat the rest. Anyway we are ready to accept any challenge to save our country.
Interesting comments.
Afatb S Alam, I was bit upset to see your comments. Its very unlike ‘you’. To some extent, YES, there are problems but the harsh way with which you wrote some sentences does not suit a patriot national.
Without indulging in blame game, we have to study basis of Indian foreign policy. In modern times, Panikar was founder of post-independence foreign policy of India. Indian hegemonistic designs are clear. In modern times, the “subjugation” is not order of the day yet to keep “hegemony” is surely in the subconscious of Indian establishment. And they do not hide it as they have started looking ‘beyond’ Pakistan and China to acquire bigger role in international arena. I have recently noticed this trend after seeing some fresh reports in Indian and western media.
India does not like a strong, vibrant and progressive Pakistan.
By knowing these details, I still believe that if civil leadership of Pakistan makes efforts for normalization of ties between two neighbours, it should be welcomed BUT we should never be oblivious of the true face of Indian designs. It will be naive to believe India can be a true friend with Pakistan. History bears testimony to this fact.
Naeem Bhai, listen I am extremely sorry to have upset you. Frankly, you ought to know how much respect and admiration I personally have for you and your kind and quality of people; you were not the target and people like yourself will never be one for such statements. Yes, it is provocative in nature, however it’s meant to provoke us out of that misplaced self-love. Naeem Bhai, patriotism must not lead us into alianation; we are citizens of this world, a part of this globe and must learn to accept the fact that we have more common traits with others than differences. If tiny Singapore with nominal army can survive and prosper in the neighborhood of a giant like China and can eventually become a model for development for Chinese to emulate. Then I think we can also rethink our strategy for developing a decent society and conditions for our people. For me our strength lies in improving the living conditions of and for our people, rather than militarily being strong; our strength lies and must be in a vibrant economy and lets face it we are far from being what you call a “progressive” Pakistan.
Do forgive me for hurting your feelings but again let me play my self-assigned role of a ‘provacateur’, it is worth an attempt to jolt ourselves from that drugged slumber of being to self-satisfied.
Regards.
Dear All,
It is worth repeating that about 60 years back, India and Pakistan had seen the Imperialist going off from our shores. India and Pakistan got a freedom. It can be said that our ancestors did fight for it but certainly it was not a big desperate fight for freedom of theirs. All the colonial powers were compelled to evacuate their colonies that their own bases; their home lands were threatened by German Nazis. A devastating war; WW II was imposed upon them and their indulgence in it proved to be very expensive for them to stay on in colonies. Thanks to Adolph Hitler also that his transgression in Europe compelled the colonial Imperialists to retreat. A good luck for all the subjugated countries like ours, that some 40 countries including India and Pakistan were freed.
Our land of India and Pakistan is bestowed with all the blessing of God Almighty that one can think of. Its fertile lands irrigated by the ever flowing rivers, amply provide the sustenance for all the peoples; its sun blest, brave hearted people are hard working, intelligent and God fearing. No enemy can ever starve them out.
Presently; the flight that India is trying to take to see her dreams fulfilled of a Super Power in the area; India and Pakistan both could have achieved it much earlier and at least excelled China by now. But Alas; India has always picked up the divisive routes. India has never poised herself a grace full role of big brother in the area. There have been long exercises of India of subjugation and of oppressing her neighbours. Just remember; what was being boasted about; when Dacca fell?
Any how; leaving every thing aside; consider the current situations at our western borders; the old colonial Imperialists have again arrived back; this time it is Imperialist America. Pakistan is the old land of passages to India; history tells us that all the invaders never stopped in this part of land. They all had gone to deep in India and after keeping the entire subcontinent subjugated by force for hundred of years; always left us and our lands high and dry.
But this time the Great Pakistanis are guarding these old India’s frontiers at Durand’s line. India has to realize that Pakistan is a blessing in disguise for India. Pakistan is bearing the brunt of American oppression alone. Pakistan is busy guarding these borders and trying to cleans the land of traitors and abettors which have some how infiltrated our lines; Pak Army is engaged in operations to make the Pakistan; a PURE land. My only fear is that the rapacity of India may not take over and we get stabbed with Indian daggers in our back.
The bad news is that new Imperialist; America has already louvered in India. India’s RAW is busy in her subversive activities inside Pakistan. It is reported that India is about to send some 15000 troops consisting of Mountain Battalions to Afghanistan. Just imagine; they will be fighting whom; where the so called dissidents of Afghanistan; Taliban are already being offered the share in Afghan Government??
“15000 Indian soldiers to Kabul: Anti-ISI Campaign unleashed”. To read it; please link an Indian Web site here; http://rupeenews.com/2008/07/30/15000-indian-soldiers-to-kabul-campaign-against-isi-unleashed/
With best of regards and;
Wishing You All a Very Happy Eid Mubarak.
Best wishes for Eid
I want to convey my best wishes to all Muslim brothers on the auspicious occassion of Eid. May almighty fulfill all of your dreams.
Wish you a Happy Eid and may this festival bring abundant joy and happiness in your life!
May this Eid be so special that you never ever feel lonely again and be surrounded by loved ones throughout!
You are special, you are unique; may your Eid be also as special and unique as you are !
Here’s wishing you all the blessing of the Eid. Wish you and your family a Happy Eid !
Saeed Khan Afridi
@@ A KHOKAR,
I am sorry but like millions of pakistanis you have been FOOLED by your own ISI.
The website link that you posted………is CREATED BY YOUR OWN ISI……and a PATHETIC ATTEMPT OF FALSE PROPAGANDA AGAINST INDIA…………want proof??????here it is
**Just look at the LEFT HAND SIDE of the screen of the web-link…….there is a column titled “TOP POSTS” and look at its contents……….TOTAL RUBBISH ABT GREAT INDIAN LEADERS………
**Just look at the other contents of the WEBLINK……………..all other posts are TOTAL CRAP AND ANTI-INDIA STUFF ……………..
any sensible man reading the website will be able to see the FALSE PROPAGANDA ………….
Lastly one thing is 4 sure………..pakistanis can be FOOLED very easily…………..
Problem with pakistanis is that THEY DONT REALLY UNDERSTAND INDIA………
if india sends 15000 troops in afganistan then it will be a DEATH NAIL for congress party in the next general election( within 8-9 months) as it will lose HUGE MUSLIM VOTES……….also political parties lies left,SP,BSP( all with muslim vote banks) will never allow it……….
Domestic compusion of Congress will prevent such a move…………..
Dear Saleem and others,
TRUTH is very important if you want to Progress and avoid mistakes.Now India is not telling it is innocent baby. But we have our case as you have yoours.Vietnam reunited,Koreans reunited,Germans reunited who were all devided by European colonisers.
India as a whole was not a single nation.But your punjabi is closer to our punjabi than say your pakthoon or baloach.ditto with our sindhies who long the days at karachi and larkhana.But same Hindu sindhi is not close to say a Hindu from Tamilnadu as he is close to a muslim sindhi of sind.That is why most of our fundemntalist Hindus are supported by sindhies and punjabies.
But you as nation has to look at your History beyong 1500 years.
How many of you know (who call themselves true Muslims that
1.Prophet Mohamed himself worshipped facing NORTH not Mecca but facing jerusalem.It is later he changed the direction of masjids facing mecca.
In India we have the Second oldest Mosque in world in Kerala whose mehrab which faces jerusalem (now modified by fundemnetalists).
In gujerat you will find in town of Ghogha the Baarwaada Masjid which also faces jerusalem as it was built before Mecca was constructed.It is in ruins today.
You must look at your History and be proud of your Ashoka pillars in kashmir and Gandhara art in NWFP.Bamiyan budhdhas and its destruction by Taliban not one SINGLE SAUDI OR UAE ARAB RAISED HIS VOICE AGAINST THIS ACT BY A GOVERNMENT SUPPORTED BY PAKISTAN,SAUDI ARABIA AND UAE. Only Pakistan government felt the anguish. Why?
If you answer this truthfully, you will see INDIA IS NOT AN ENEMY but a nation PERSUING ITS OWN SELFISH NATIONAL INTEREST.
Response to banal blathering of “An Indian” and the inaccurate and condescending and patronizing article of Mr. Butt.
We take strong umbrage at your false and inaccurate allegations against our US based website that in fact presents a fair, unbiased and balanced criticism of all personalities and countries. There is a plethora of articles critical of Iran, the USA, Phillipines, Thailand, Britian, and Paksitan. Why should “India” or Indian leaders be exempt from critcism?
To set the record straight…
There are more than 2000 articles on the site represeting a plethora of multi-dimensional subjects from various authors who hail from India, Bangladesh, Nepal, USA, UK, Lanka and Pakistan etc. The left side of the site is what readers like to read. These are the articles that are “MOST POPULAR” on the site. BTW: Mr. Gilani and Ms. Tariq’s articles who are Pakistani are popular. Mr. Clinton’s criticism, and Mr. Brunis articles have also made the top 10.
The right of the site represents “Most recently posted articles”. This list changes on a dialy basis. This week the news centered around Afghanistan and the financial crisis in the USA.
You claim that India is a democracy—though you fail to observe democratic norms and are unable to handle criticism of anything India…your knee jerk reaction is to blame Pakistan.
Mr. Butt tripe is based upon appeasement. The leaders of Pakistan are not hawks, the represent the wishes of the people. Bhutto, Liaqat Ali Khan, and Qauid e Zam, along with all others say the same thing to India. Why does Mr. Butt not mention the 60 dams that India is building in Kashmir to deprive Pakistan of water. Why did he not mention the Marriot bombing carired out by RAW? Why does Mr. Butt and others forget the thousands of bombs that exploded in Pakistan during the 80 (during the war against the USSR). Who can forget 1971? Why does Mr. Butt forget to mention the fact that Sir Creek, Kargil, and Siachin is Paksitani territory? Why does Mr. Butt forget the fact that India is occupying Kashmir, Junagarh, Manvadar and illegally occupied Hydrabad and hundreds of other states in the Subcontinent.
India’s efforts to destabilize countries is not limited to Pakistan. India is destabilizing all the countries around her…Sikkim, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Lanka, Maldives…..all have raging insurgencies supported by India. The peaceful people of Lanka, the SInhelese Buddhists face the most lethal terro group on the planet the Indian manufactured LTTE tigers. 250 million Indian Dalits, and 150 milion Muslims along with Naxalites, Assamese, Maoists are now embroiled in a civil war in India—which is exploding like Mt. Vesuvius.
LEAVE US ALONE!
Pakistan Zindabad!
Dear Moin
With all due respect……..READ what pakistan’s newspaper THE DAWN says……..read
the last article “”NO MUSLIM CAN DO THIS”
http://jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2008-weekly/nos-28-09-2008/dia.htm
A QUOTE FROM THE ARTICLE::
“”"”"Now, according to a hatchet job in a website increasingly becoming known for peddling disinformation and propaganda created by in all likelihood by a covert state organisation, the number stands at 20 and possibly 107! It also says that because of India’s help in making a crucial highway linking Afghanistan to the Iranian port of Charbahr, there are now close to 10,000 Indian soldiers inside Afghanistan. The ‘no-Muslim-can-do-this’ angle becomes all the more evident when the same ‘article’ claims — without a shred of evidence — that the attack on the Indian Embassy in Kabul was not carried out by a suicide bomber (though Sirajjudin Haqqani boasted that he was behind it soon after the attack) but by a remote control bomb detonated by Mossad.
The ‘107′ consulates inside Afghanistan are said to contain at least a dozen intelligence units all of whom are working day and night to recruit and train suicide bombers to send to Pakistan — a truly good example of interfaith cooperation perhaps! Added in for good measure — who is checking anyway! — is a detail that the would-be bombers are being trained at a madrassah in Wakhan (which is some distance northwest in Afghanistan as the crow flies from Bajaur and Mohmand agencies) and that Indian Muslims are operating it!”"”"”
Read FIRST FEW LINES………and GUESS WHICH WEBSITE IT IS TALKING ABT????
CORTRECTION:-
not the dawn………..but “THE JANG”………..sorry 4 that mistake.
Mr. Moin
YOU SAY:-
“”"”"India is destabilizing all the countries around her…Sikkim, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Lanka, Maldives…..all have raging insurgencies supported by India.”"”"”"
QUESTIONS:-
1>>when did sikkim became another country?????
2>>insurgency in NEPAL??????………..WHEN , WHERE ,HOW, BY WHOM????? maoists are now DEMOCRATICALLY elected…………
3>>insurgency in BHUTAN????…………WHEN , WHERE,HOW, BY WHOM?????
hhahahhahhahhaha…….you can really keep us entertained BIG TIME.
Mr.Moin,
Indian RAW carried out marriot bombing. so we are killing the US marines inside with steel boxes not checked by hotel security.Thansk for the compliment.
Bhutto is a great leader but he signed a deal in 1971 called Shimla agreement. Who is breaking that agreement/ Musharaff said as army chief he doenot respect shimla accord signed by civilians like Bhutto, nawaz sherriff. do you agree to this?
You say kargil,siachen sir creek belongs to you, then why talk to indian government at all on these issues.
You say Pakistan developped nukes for self preservation from India.does India have right for self preservation from china when Paksitan wants to be Isreal of China in subcontinent?
You have your Nukes, India has no problem.
If your country is PURE why then Saudi Arabia is not allowing its citizens to visit this land of PURE while allowing them to visit even infidel india and even bangladesh!!!
Interesting debate. But as in any other discussion there should be some ground rules. Passion is good in a debate so long it does not degenerate into a slanging match. Instead of repeating the same points, new issues need to be raised.
Let’s not be angry when we enter into a discussion. Revise your copy before you press the “enter” button. See if you can modify your comments so that you can get a sensible answer to the points raised in your submission.
Are we trying to run each other down or trying to understand a very complex issue of relationships. Let’s not talk “on behalf of” all Pakistanis or Indians.
Let us have some humility because we all have our limitations and suffer from the consequences of our limited vision.
The blogs normally attract the so-called educated members of the influential middle-classes. We don’t even care what the large majority of the population (that barely manages to get two square meals a day) thinks about India-Pakistan relations.
For centuries Hindus, Muslims and others have lived in peace in this subcontinent.
And today we are fanatically waving our flags (many a times in an aggressive fashion) whenever we get down to a discussion (if not picking up guns).
Let us explore what is common between Indians and Pakistanis (apart from the Punjabi swear words!!!).
Let us not keep shouting from the rooftops about our differences alone.