Cordial Pak-Israel Relations: Why Not?
By Hassan Amin • Jun 21st, 2009 • Category: Politics, Worth A Second Look • 73 CommentsBoth Pakistan and Israel appeared on world map, in the aftermath of World War II; Pakistan in 1947 and Israel in 1948. Israel was founded as a Jewish homeland, while Pakistan’s founding fathers envisaged it as a homeland for oppressed Moslems of the Indian Subcontinent. Pakistan’s founding father Jinnah and Israel’s David Ben-Gurion were both secular leaders who struggled for the political rights of their religious communities. They did not want the new countries to become theocratic states, but rather Modern Democracies, based on their respective religious values.
There are striking similarities between the circumstances in which each of these states came into being. As close as 10 years prior to their creation, no one really believed that there would be states by the name of Pakistan or Israel. Both gained independence from British rule, and in both cases, the new states were carved out of territory under British Rule through a process of partition. Partition of British Palestine resulted in creation of Israel while partition of British India gave birth to Pakistan.
Creation of Israel was followed by mass migration of Jews from across the world to the new state; many of them helpless survivors of the Holocaust Genocide, - one of the worst tragedies in human history - who were relieved to have a state of their own, after decades of persecution. Similarly, the creation of Pakistan witnessed mass exodus of Moslems from all across the Indian Subcontinent to the new republic. Thousands of Moslems, on their way to their new country, were massacred in the ensuing violence of the 1947 partition. Interestingly, upon birth, both states faced severe hostility from their neighbors. Just as Israel’s hostile Arab neighbors attacked it on inception, initiating the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, in our case, immediately after independence, India sent its troops to occupy Kashmir, which was set to become Pakistan’s territory according to all the rules of the British partition plan. [Nevertheless Pakistan’s nascent and rather ill-equipped army bravely fought back and annexed a sizeable part of Kashmir, that we today refer to as Azad Kashmir (Free Kashmir)] To date, both Israel and Pakistan face an existential threat from their neighbors (i.e. the Arab countries and India respectively).
Both states have been home to some of the oldest civilizations in on earth.. Throughout history, both Pakistan and Israel have historically served as meeting points of religions, civilizations and cultures.
Unlike their rivals (India and the Arab countries respectively) both pursued a realistic foreign policy devoid of idealism and rhetoric. At the time of their independence, both tried to pursue a non-aligned foreign policy that sought friendly relations with the rival blocs of the Cold War. A host of regional developments curtailed their options, however. Very soon, both were firmly entrenched in the Western camp and emerged as principal allies, and at times proxies, of Washington in the region[1].
In spite of all these similarities, it is sad enough, that more than 60 years have gone by, without the establishment of any bilateral relations between the two countries. It is reported that the first Israeli President David Ben Gurion initiated contacts with Quaid-e-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah as early as 1947. However not much is known about the nature of those early contacts. Also, very few people know that Pakistan’s first envoy to the UN was of Jewish origin. Leopold Weiss was an Austrian Jew who converted to Islam, moved to British India in late 1930s. Both his parents were murdered during the Holocaust genocide. He worked alongside Pakistan’s founding fathers in the freedom movement and was later appointed as Pakistan’s first ambassador to the United Nations.
Pakistan and Israel are not enemies by any definition. Neither has there ever been any direct conflict of interests between the two states. But they are not friends either. Unfortunately, it is our Pakistani state which has been reluctant to establish any sort of relations with the Jewish state. Pakistan has seen two long periods of dictatorial rule; first from 1958 to 1971, then from 1977 to 1988. These regimes either heavily relied on the support of religious extremists, to suppress dissent, or were too much captivated by the Arab frenzy, and thus never considered establishing ties with Israel. However, despite its non-recognition of Israel, no Pakistani government, either democratic or otherwise, ever went beyond extending diplomatic support to Arabs in the Mid-East conflict. Unlike the Iran or the Arab regimes, no Pakistani government has ever issued any aggressive statements regarding Israel. Also, when Pakistan conducted its first ever nuclear tests in 1998, Pakistani delegation to the UN met their Israeli counterparts and assured Israel that Pakistan would never transfer nuclear technology to Iran.
The ordinary Pakistani has always been apolitical towards the Arab-Israeli Conflict. Many in our country still don’t know much about the Arab-Israeli dispute. It has only been the tiny yet vocal minority of extremist Mullahs, who, finding common cause with the Arab extremists, have always depicted Israel as an enemy of Moslems in general, and Pakistanis in particular. But then, these fanatics have always had the same attitude towards US or other western nations. Their attitudes are in no way representative of the sentiments of Pakistani people. It is noteworthy that the political parties dominated by Extremist Mullahs have never managed to garner more than 1% of the total votes in any general election.Yet, under dictatorial regimes, they did manage to keep the silent moderate majority hostage to their agenda; often through violence, especially on university campuses, which are often the cradle of dissent. The situation was especially peculiar during General Zia’s 11 years in power from 1977 to 1988. This dictator heavily relied on support of religious fanatics. Under his regime, Pakistan’s intelligence service, the ISI working alongside Israeli intelligence agency Mossad, and the CIA’s covertly ran Operation Cyclone aimed at waging a proxy war against Soviet Red Army in Afghanistan[2]. In fact the regime was in no way, averse to high-level dealing with Israel. Nevertheless, the extremists thriving under the regime promoted all sorts of misconceptions, rumors and hatred against Israel. To this day, religious extremists here, just like their counterparts in neighboring Iran, smell ‘Zionist involvement’ in every untoward incident. However ordinary Pakistanis have never taken such rants seriously, often ridiculing such behavior. With the dawn of the electronic age and proliferation of internet, attitudes are more and more being based on pragmatism, rather than senseless conspiracy theories.
Today Pakistan is a democracy in the truest sense. Israel has always been a democracy. We are Islami Jamhooriya-i-Pakistan; they Medinat Yisrael. Being a democracy, Pakistan can surely find more in common with Israel, than the despotic Arab Sheikhdoms and Kingdoms, who in fact have never really been supportive, when it comes to our national interests. For instance, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat always offended Pakistan, by openly supporting India on Kashmir issue. And so has been the attitude of other Arab regimes who had always given us the cold shoulder in our time of need. On the other hand, despite the absence of any bilateral ties, Israel has supported Pakistan on some UN resolutions during the past 61 years. On numerous occasions, the two countries adopted identical positions on important developments in the Middle East. So why should Pakistan blindly follow the Arab and Iranian dictation when it comes to establishing ties with Israel? Why shouldn’t we extend a hand of friendship to Israel? After all, Pakistan is not a satellite state of Iran or Arab states.
Pakistanis do share their Moslem faith with Arabs, but so do millions of Christians across the world. Being a Moslem, does not necessarily equate to being an Arab. Islam is a universal religion that transcends all boundaries of race and color. In fact Moslem faith teaches respect for Jewish traditions and all their religious personalities, such as Prophets Solomon, Jacob, Joseph, Moses (Peach be Upon Them) and other Jewish prophets. Moslem tradition stipulates that Jews were once the Chosen and most blessed people of God. Kosher meat is considered Halal for Moslems. Remarkably, when Jews celebrate Passover, commemorating the Exodus, many Moslems also fast on this occasion.
In fact, the history of interaction between the Moslem and Jewish communities is very rich. For centuries, Jewish communities coexisted in harmony within Moslem societies in Cordova, Baghdad, Ispahan, Istanbul and Bokhara, contributing to a vibrant cosmopolitan culture. Many Jewish historians have referred to the days of Muslim Spain as the ‘golden period’, when Jewish communities thrived intellectually, politically and economically in an environment of religious tolerance and scholarly inspiration. The wrath of the Spanish Inquisition was borne jointly by Muslims and Jews. Indeed, over the centuries, Jewish communities and Islamic societies from Central Asia to Spain, have not only lived together and shared prosperity, but also suffered together [3].
The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is essentially a political conflict not a religious one. Being a democratic Moslem country, Pakistan can help the two sides resolve their longstanding dispute. But Pakistan can only play a positive role once it recognizes and establishes relations with Israel.
I recall the episode wherein our national tennis player Aisam-ul-Haque teamed up with Amir Hadad of Israel during Wimbledon and US Open tournaments in 2002. Extremists in Pakistan raised much hue and cry on the matter, while majority of Pakistanis expressed support for the tennis star. This started a renewed debate on the issue of establishing formal relations with Israel.. Many people expressed their opinions in national newspapers. An overwhelming majority advocated the need for establishing friendly relations with Israel. Within 3 year, public sentiment in Pakistan and encouragement from the US translated in the groundbreaking meeting between foreign ministers of the two states in Istanbul, on September 1st, 2005. Later, on September 17, President Musharraf made a historic address to the American Jewish Congress. The ceremony started with the Jewish ritual of breaking bread. The Pakistani President with the significant observation that Jews and Muslims “have many similarities and few divergences in their faith and culture,” then listed three specifics: belief in the oneness of God, shared ways of greeting, and a common phrase in the Talmud and Koran. And Moses, he pointed out, is the prophet most often referred to in the Koran. He lauded the constructive role of American Jewish community saying that they “were at the forefront in opposing the ethnic cleansing of Muslims in Bosnia”, and added “I am told that the largest contributor to the Bosnian cause was the Jewish-American businessman and philanthropist, George Soros.” The Pakistani President termed Holocaust as a great tragedy. President Musharraf called the Jewish community as “probably the most distinguished and influential community” in America. Looking to the future, he emphasized the role of compassion in repairing Muslim-Jewish relations. President Musharraf is also said to have held a brief meeting with Israeli PM Sharon on the sidelines of the UN summit in 2005. In the aftermath of 2005 Earthquake, the Jewish community in America even collected donations for Pakistani quake victims. The Israeli government also offered its humanitarian assistance during that crisis.
Pakistan has everything to gain by establishing cordial relations with Israel. Being mainly an agriculture based economy, we can benefit enormously from Israel’s great accomplishments in this field. Israelis are undoubtedly world leaders in agricultural technologies and have managed to convert vast tracts of desert into productive arable land. Israel’s technical universities are few of the very best in the world and Pakistani students may be sent there for advanced training in fields vital to our economy. Pakistan may also be able to acquire sophisticated Israeli weaponry for its armed forces. On the other side, Israel may be able to gain access to Pakistani ports, thereby enabling it to enhance its diversified trade with China and the landlocked Central Asian Republics. Constructive bilateral relations are in the interest of not only Pakistan and Israel, but are also vital for long term peace and stability in our region. Our ties will serve to maintain the balance of power in the region by discouraging Iranian regime’s war hysteria on one hand, while offsetting Indian designs of regional hegemony on the other. It certainly will be a win-win scenario for both the countries.
Now that Pakistan has a truly functional democratic setup, building friendly relations with Israel should be one of the top priorities for our elected government. It would not only result in great international acclaim for Pakistan, but will also serve our greater foreign policy objectives.
The writer is an undergraduate student of Electrical Engineering.
References:
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P. R. Kumaraswamy, “Beyond the Veil: Israel- Pakistan Relations”, Memorandum no. 55, March 2000, Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies, Tel Aviv University
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George Crile, “Charlie Wilson’s War: The Extraordinary Story of the Largest Covert Operation in History”, 2003, Atlantic Monthly Press, New York
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Daniel Pipes, “Musharraf’s Historic Speech”, New York Sun, September 20, 2005
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The writer is an Electrical Engineer in early 20s. His hobbies include reading books on history, playing table-tennis, chess, and mathematical problem solving.
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I agree with simply nothing in your analysis. Your analysis is inherently flawed and does not take into account the ground realities. Israel can never be considered a legitimate state unless it denounces its occupying tactics and accepts the UN resolutions on the Palestinian state and illegal settlements. Till then, merely the passage of 60 years does not render it okay for us to establish bilateral relations with Israel. Why do we need to? Why do we need to go back on our policy? Once we compromise on Israel, Kashmir is lost forever.
Comparisons between the Jewish exodus and the migration of Muslims at partition is flawed in the sense that we were not occupying the land of another people.; we were merely shifting to our own lands, but Israel drove out the original inhabitants of the land, restricted the remaining to specific occupied areas and did not allow them to buy land in their own country. Israelis have discriminated against the Palestinians in every way and violated every UN resolution. It has infact supported state terrorism in the garb of self preservation. A vast majority of the people of Pakistan simply hate Israel for its policies. We may be ready to accept its existence once it allows the creation of a Palestinian state and redraws borders, but not till then.
Pakistan and Israel do not have same strategic interests. The Quran says that Jews can never be your friends. But the issue is about injustice. Israel has been unjust to the Palestinians; they were a persecuted people themselves, yet didnt think twice before persecuting the Palestinians. My blood boils when I think of the entire history of Jerusalem and how good the Muslims have been to Jews and how they have repayed the debt. I suggest you read “Jerusalem” by Karenn Armstrong, you will know yourself what’s the truth
Faroha:
Much of Palestine was uninhabited land before the creation of State of Israel. There was simply no country as Palestine, before the creation of Israel in 1948. The whole region was ruled by the British, as the British Mandate of Palestine, from 1920 to 1948. Before that is was part of the greater Ottoman Empire, which dinintegrated in the aftermath of the first world war.
The conflict between Israel and Palestinians is a political conflict, not a religious one. Both Palestinans and Israelis are equally responsible for bitterness. Every action has an equal opposite reaction, though it may be disproportionate at times. The same is true of this dispute. More often than not, it is the actions of the Palestinians that result in misery for them. Why don’t the Palestinians disband terrorist organizations like Hamas? After all, there is no difference between the Terror Tactics of Hamas and Taliban Terrorists. How can peace process be continued if the Palestinian Terrorist Organizations continue their terror attacks in Israeli cities? There is always collateral dammage. Look how successfully our own Pakistan Army is eliminating Taliban Terrorists, and yet there are still occurences of collateral dammage sometimes.
We Pakistanis need to see this dispute
I’ve already cited the great similarities between the beliefs of Jews and Moslems. And all opinion polls show that majority of educated middle class Pakistanis and intelligentia have no objection whatsoever, if the government establishes relations with Israel.
You people wrongly interpret Islam. Islam never teaches hatred for the Jews. In fact the Jewish traditions are treated with respect in Islam. Jews are refered to as the People of the Book. They were undoubtedly one of the most blessed and favourite people of God. The Jewish community has the largest number of Nobel Laureates.
Pakistan does not need to follow the footsteps of madmen and extremists in the Arab world who go to the extent of denying the Holocaust, which was in fact one of the greatest tragedies of all times. Rather we need to follow an independent foreign policy based on pragmatism. Pakistan is a democracy and so is Israel. And in the words of our President Asif Ali Zardari, Democracies should never be hostile to one another.
Faroha: You better read this essay carefully again, and you’ll find all answers
People of Pakistan are more concerned about economic issues, security issues, roti, kapra and makan, electricity, employment opportunities, than being concerned about the senseless rhetoric of extremists who promote hate for Israel. Israel is a pluralist liberal democracy, with even a number of Moslem MPs in its parliament. It is an example of how successfully a secular state based on religious principles can be.
I say fuck israel and free Plastine and create a Muslim Empire from India to Spain
they are our enemy and we should preach hate against rather then spreading love for them they are rats and rats have no place in World….burn them…kill them… massacre them….gas them do what ever world has to get rid of jews and hindus to make it peacefull
newb3e
The world might be a peaceful place having gassed jews and hindus to some extent but it just might be a whole safer if people like you never existed
“”"Just as Israel’s hostile Arab neighbors attacked it on inception, initiating the 1948 Arab-Israeli War, in our case, immediately after independence, India sent its troops to occupy Kashmir, which was set to become Pakistan’s territory according to all the rules of the British partition plan”"”
Lie, looks like Pakistanis are born to lie and deny. Here is a paragraph from Wikipedia, which says king of Kashmir didn’t agree to join Kashmir to Pakistan, and later he signed the contract with India. Now i guess, you guys would say that king of Kashmir did it wrong. Below is the piece:
“”"Ranbir Singh’s grandson Hari Singh, who had ascended the throne of Kashmir in 1925, was the reigning monarch in 1947 at the conclusion of British rule of the subcontinent and the subsequent partition of the British Indian Empire into the newly independent Union of India and the Dominion of Pakistan. As parties to the partition process, both countries had agreed that the rulers of princely states would be given the right to opt for either Pakistan or India or—in special cases—to remain independent. In 1947, Kashmir’s population “was 77% Muslim and it shared a boundary with Pakistan. Hence, it was anticipated that the Maharaja would accede to Pakistan, when the British paramountcy ended on 14-15 August. When he hesitated to do this, the adjacent Muslims in newly created Pakistan along with many Pashtun began to enter his territory. The Maharaja, appealed to Mountbatten[9] for assistance, and the Governor-General agreed and demanded that the ruler first accede to India before assistance.”[10] Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, “Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and drove the Pakistani-sponsored irregulars from all but a small section of the state. The United Nations was then invited to mediate the quarrel. The UN mission insisted that the opinion of Kashmiris must be ascertained, while India insisted that no referendum could occur until all of the state had been cleared of irregulars.”"”
@Faroha
“”"The Quran says that Jews can never be your friends. “”"
Are you sure about this statement? Does Quran *really* say like that? Fellow muslims, do you guys agree?
Cordial relations are one thing and becoming a friend is another. We cannot say that we dont want to have any link with the Israel just because they are Jews. Because then we cannot meet many American and European delegates who come here every other week, because most of them are also Jews.
There are no friends in the diplomacy and I can see that merely mention of having cordial relations with Israel is giving fits to the Indians. I say why not cordial relations with India also? India is much nearer than Israel.
I will try to comment after reading whole article. But start is totally wrong by comparing Pakistan struggle of independence with Israeli.
Just consult historic books and you will find that Palestine was selected by France and British after holocaust in 1940’s, in which more than 5 million Jews were Politically and legally killed after Germany called them as biggest enemy of Germans.
This land (palestine) was selected after consulting with Jews top religious personalities. So how you can compare Pakistan independence with Isreal.
And just see this TPS, who made it as Top Article of the day.
I’m not against relations with Jews. If we can keep relation with Cristians and Hindus then Jews are not some thing very exceptional. Rather if you read religious history then you will find many similarities between Jews practices and Muslims Practices. But these similarities are the danger for Islam. So we can proceed for relations…only working relations.. Cant call it friendship because Jews can never be true friends of Muslims.
Oracle: You are very right. See its all about our own Pakistani national interests that we ought to establish good relations with Israel. Yes India is much nearer to Pakistan, but just as Arabs haven’t accepted Israel’s existance by heart, like wise, Indians have also never accepted Pakistan’s existance by heart. Our history shows that Indians have never missed any opportunity to harm Pakistan.
sid:
I’m afraid you’re entirely wrong in your assertions. The Maharaja of Kashmir in no way represented the sentiments of the People of Kashmir, who were dominantly Moslem and wanted to join Pakistan.
You cite Kashmir’s Maharaja decision, but what about the decision of Nawab of Junagardh who decided to Pakistan, but India occupied Junagardh on the pretext that since majority its population were Hindus who wanted to join India, India had a righ to annex Junagardh.
My friend, please don’t present distorted version of history. Wikipedia is no valid reference, when it comes to history, as anyone , rather everyone can edit this open source encyclopaedia.
Regards,
HA
Oracle:
You are too right, as merely mentioning of having cordial relations with Israel is giving fits to the Indians.
You know all Pakistani governments since 1980 have had corvert relations with Israel. Zia-ul-Haq’s regime had high level contacts with Israel, regarding Operation Cyclone.
We all know that Shaheed Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto had good relations with Israeli leaders like Shimon Perez. She was widely respected, The Israeli ambassador in the US often held talks, whenever she went to Washnington. Even when Pakistan conducted its nuclear tests in 1998, Nawaz Sharif’s government secretly assured Israel that Pakistan would never transfer its nuclear technology to Iran or any other state. Why is it so? because all democratically elected governments in Pakistan are more concerned about Pakistan’s long term interests, rather than following senseless rhetoric of extremist Mullahs, Iran or Arab regimes.
Anyone who deems our national interests supreme would agree that relations with Israel are in our best long term interests.
It was done; in the name of Israel Security
Pakistan and Israel may be said that these two nations were created on the bases of ideological states. But Pakistan was created in the name and Renaissance of Islam, where as the creation of Israel is the out come of rehabilitative act carved for the Jews since placed defunct in the west for their general repulsive conduct and Hippocratic way of life that western society was weary of them and rejected them. Millions Jews was gassed to death collective as their punishment.
In order to forget and forgive the afflictions and pangs of holocaust, Jews were given a chunk of land by world major players. A piece of Palestinian land; predominantly occupied by Muslims, lying next to the common religious shrines of three major religions. It was given to the war stricken Jews settlers and land was named as; Israel. The Muslim of the area, were also living a battered lives. They had borne the brunt of World War II being trapped in its battlefields and also suffered heavily. They were also set free recently after the long war and given independence in the lands; carved and tailored by their colonial masters. Any how, since the earlier fall of their Ottoman Empire’ they were already in despair and gone into some sort of state of hibernation. They were also seen reverted back to their life style of primitive, bygone days.
It was thought that Jews, being a non-marshal race by nature while living next to their religious shrines will be contended here. They were likely to lead; a very low ebb and humble life.
But it was not long after the inception of this young state; that a new turn came in the lives of these Jews settlers. They were lead to believe that they are not living among brethren Muslim but they are among their arched enemies. To save guard their religious belief and socio–economic persuasions; the western powers strongly suggested them to weave a strong web of armed security around them.
A seedling of fallacy was planted and it was pushed forward in Israeli society, very skilfully. In order to avail hegemony of western powers in Middle East and to be in control of world oil rich resources; they reared Israel with a special design in mind, to become a ‘bully boy’ in the Arab world. Hence after; the Muslim countries in the Arab world are continuously denied and restricted their access to any worth while knowledge and technology or acquiring of any advance type arsenals to equate Israel; or even to procure, basic legitimate arms needed for their defence. On the other hand; in order to create a deterrent and keep her neighbours suppressed; Israel was armed to the teeth. She was assisted and made to develop the most advanced technologies in the world. Israel is now the producer of very sophisticated and sensitive, world class arsenals and other commercial products. So much so that major advanced countries are her big customers. Israel is turned into a real invincible monster. This stark parity has made Israel an isolated and a hated identity in the eyes of Arab world.
Denial, restriction, suppression and persecution of Arab nations to achieve supremacy and create hegemony are the order of the day. All along and including this Lebanon- Israel war; the way it was conducted by baring; all the assistance to Lebanese and allowing an ample extended time to Israel to achieve a sure kill of Lebanese; are stark examples. The common scene; daily played on our TV screens; of assault of Israeli Merkava tanks, and targeting and taking down a destitute Palestinian house; blasting off the house with their inhabitants in it and leaving a wailing widow with a striven houses and maimed kids is a daily show of playing a havoc in the lives of destitute people; A crime being committed regularly against humanity. And then hoping that one less decedent by eliminating him; will bring the peace for Israel; which can only be said… a fool’s wish? It has also been witnessed that it does no take very long; that the same maimed kids turn back; and we find them knocking at our doors…as a suicide bombers; chasing their killers!
Israel is considered as a local resident agent; engineering the webs of deceit in Middle East and minting in billions of dollars in return from the sponsors.
Actions on ground are more evident than explaining them in the words! But question arises; do we really need all this to do; merely to meet our own vested interest? Do we really need to kill the bee to share the nectar from the flowers?
Do we really believe that research in technology and acquiring of knowledge can be denied and restricted in this ‘21st century of information and technology’ to Middle Eastern; especially to the countries sitting on the mounds of wealth and the world critical resources, or…for that matter; to any one out there?
If we think so, we must be rabid psychotics; and possibly we may be the first hand promoters of terrorism in the world that we are facing today. Our self created terror is making us; to live our lives in a continuous state of fear. If only we can remember; that What ever we do, and what ever we utter; our those deeds and utterance will always chase, haunts us; for the rest of our life.
Scale of committal of atrocities by the west and bringing of affliction and pains to the destitute dwellers on this planet earth; is far greater and too serious; to bring them into some form of account or measurement!
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Love for all, Hatred for none
First of all, we should all acknowledge that Holocaust was one of the worst massacres of mankind ever perpetrated. Just see the pictures of Nazi concentration camps in Belsen, Auzwitz, just see how 6 million innocents, 6 million human beings were murdered. It is a shame for the entire humanity that such horrific things happened in our recent times. Seeing the pictures of innocent Jewish populations, including the old, women and children, subjected to such brutal treatment in Nazi concentration camps, tears rush to one’s eyes and one is forced to wonder how human beings can do such horrible things to other human beings?
As Muslims, it is our responsibility to denounce in the strongest terms the cruelties of Holocaust. NO question about this whatsoever. Irresponsible remarks of people like Iran’s Mahmud Ahmedenejad are condemnable in this respect. Politics are politics, but human beings should not fall to such a disgrace, by denying the worst form of attrocities committed against fellow human beings.
There is no harm in making good ties with Israel, as Hassan pointed out, since there are a great deal of similaries between our nations’ parallel paths. Its probably time that our parallel paths converge, for the sake of bringing long term peace in the world and thwarting designs of all hate mongers.
@Hassan Amin
“”"My friend, please don’t present distorted version of history. Wikipedia is no valid reference, when it comes to history, as anyone , rather everyone can edit this open source encyclopaedia.”"”
I don’t claim i know truth, but you are claiming you know the truth. I just showed you a reference to the story different from what you preach, and you claim that source is wrong. This is a classic logic. FYI there are couple of citations in Wikipedia, i know you would say they too are wrong.
You guys claim being a muslim alone is sufficient proof that they want to be part of Pakistan, even though there are enough contradictions available (Jinnah’s sister or daughter reject Pakistan and stayed in India). I cannot understand this stupid logic of yours, no sane person can understand. So i don’t believe 70% muslims population automatically some how makes it part of Pakistan; as per this skewed logic, Baloch should belong to Afghanistan, and all shia major places along the border belong to Iran.
BTW, do you know the meaning of a KING and kingdom?
What is the Punishment for being Hypocrites; it is found very glaring in case of Israel and Muslim Ummah that we are found in the grip of Hypocrisy should take note and take heed. A brief of Jews life is given here where God Almighty in Quran says.
Quran- Al Baqrah
[2:47] O children of Israel! remember My favour which I bestowed upon you and that I exalted you above the peoples.
[2:48] And fear the day when no soul shall serve as a substitute for another soul at all, nor shall intercession be accepted for it; nor shall ransom be taken from it; nor shall they be helped.
[2:49] And remember the time when We delivered you from Pharaoh’s people who afflicted you with grievous torment, slaying your sons and sparing your women; and in that there was a great trial for you from your Lord.
[2:50] And remember the time when We divided the sea for you and saved you and drowned Pharaoh’s people, while you looked on.
[2:51] And remember the time when We made Moses a promise of forty nights; then you took the calf for worship in his absence and you were transgressors
[2:52] Then We forgave you thereafter, that you might be grateful.
[2:53] And remember the time when We gave Moses the Book and the Discrimination, that you might be rightly guided.
[2:54] And remember the time when Moses said to his people: ‘O my people, you have indeed wronged yourselves by taking the calf for worship; turn you therefore to your Maker, and slay your own people; that is the best for you with your Maker.’ Then He turned towards you with compassion. Surely, He is Oft-Returning with compassion, and is Merciful.
[2:55] And remember when you said: ‘O Moses, we will by no means believe thee until we see Allah face to face;’ then the thunderbolt overtook you, while you gazed.
[2:56] Then We raised you up after your death, that you might be grateful
[2:57] And We caused the clouds to be a shade over you and sent down on you Manna and Salwa, saying: ‘Eat of the good things We have provided for you.’ And they wronged Us not, but it was themselves that they wronged.
[2:58] And remember the time when We said: “Enter this village and eat there from — wherever you will — plentifully; and enter the gate submissively and say: ‘God! forgive us our sins.’ We shall forgive you your sins and We shall give increase to those who do good.”
[2:59] The transgressors changed it for a word other than that which was said to them. So We sent down upon the transgressors a punishment from heaven, because they were disobedient.
[2:65]And surely, you have known the end of those amongst you, who transgressed in the matter of the Sabbath. So We said to them: ‘Be ye apes, despised.’
Sid:
Please read again what I said earlier:
The Maharaja of Kashmir in no way represented the sentiments of the People of Kashmir, who were dominantly Moslem and wanted to join Pakistan.
You cite Kashmir’s Maharaja decision, but what about the decision of Nawab of Junagardh who decided to Pakistan, but India occupied Junagardh on the pretext that since majority its population were Hindus who wanted to join India, India had a righ to annex Junagardh.
Aren’t these Indian double standards sid?
When the Nawab of Junagardh decided annexation of his State to Pakistan, why did India invade and forcefully annex that state, claiming that Hindus wanted to
Pakistanis know very well what happens to Moslems in India. Hindu fanatics butchered atleast 7000 innocent Moslems in just a few days during the Gujarat Genocide.
And yet you people haven’t brought any culprit to jusctice.
In fact, Narendra Moodi the chief organizer of this massacre is now the Chief Minister of Gujarat and is making life more miserable for Moslems there. Quaid-e-Azam Jinnah and other founding fathers were very wise men, and made the right decision by demanding a separate Moslem Homeland.
As for his daughter, Quaid-e-Azam had disowned her when she married a non-Moslem and refused to ever meet her again.
So dis, instead of attacking the foundations of our nationhood, please accept Pakistan as a reality. Pakistan always strives for peace with India, but unfortunately Indians have never accepted Pakistan by heart.
Khokar:
Quran only condemns the ‘transgressors’ among the Jews, not the entire Jewish nation.
And ‘transgressors’ can also be found in Moslems or ‘Christians’.
In fact, from Quranic Teachings, we find that Jews were the most blessed people of GOD
Hasan
You have raised such an issue that was one of top priority of musharf regime but his indulgence in war on terror in which he was strongly needed the force of wahabis groups, he actually avoided his Israel Pak friendship to open.But foreign offices and officers specially working in UK ,US and although in some latin American countries can confirm his unofficial meeting with Israel officials in his officials and unnecessary trips to those countries. I try to give you clips of his speech that strongly reveal from where you are getting the life of such ideas.
On July 6, Musharraf, responding to a question in a Geo TV interview concerning Pakistan’s policy on Israel, said that as soon the independent Palestinian state is established, Pakistan might review its policy on Israel “after consultation with the brotherly Arab states.
On the same day, the president received support from a political leader in Pakistan. In an interview with a private television channel in London, Pakistan Muslim League (Q) president Chaudhry Shujaat said that recognition of Israel could be considered once there is peace in the Middle East and an independent and sovereign Palestinian state is established. The PML(Q) is widely acknowledged to be Musharraf’s personal political party.
The Pakistani president’s eagerness to court Israel has not gone unnoticed in Tel Aviv. Commenting on Musharraf’s Geo TV interview, Israel’s ambassador to the European Union and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, Oded Eran, said, “We have seen the statement of Musharraf on the issue of recognition of Israel by Pakistan. It is a positive statement and we hope that it will not prove to be a statement of political expediency and his views will be translated into action by the establishment of diplomatic relations between Israel and Pakistan.
It is likely that Musharraf, who has thrown in his lot with the Bush administration in order to survive politically, was put under pressure at the Camp David pow-wow with President George W Bush recently. Recognition of Israel could be yet another “favor” that the Americans want from him in exchange for Washington not rocking the boat in Pakistan.
In a memorandum from March 2000, a scholar from the Jaffee Center for Strategic Studies (JCCS) in Tel Aviv documented various efforts by and contacts between the authorities of the two countries aimed at establishing diplomatic relations.
In September 1997, leader of the Awami Qiyadat party, Mirza Aslam Beg, who was Pakistan’s chief of army staff from 1988-1991 following the mysterious death of then-president Zia in 1988, made his preferences clear, “Pakistan has no direct differences with Israel; therefore, we are a third party to the dispute … We have no conflict with Israel; therefore we should not hesitate in recognizing Israel
In 2002 Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Abdullah offered Israel full peace if Tel Aviv agreed to a Palestine state. A report in the Pakistani newspapers on July 16 cited European Union, UN and Russian officials involved in the Middle East peace process to the effect that Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and 53 other Islamic countries have agreed to recognize Israel by 2005. The delegation hailed Musharraf’s positive approach on the subject, and hoped other Islamic countries would also adopt a soft line towards Israel.
So this is actual theme of your latest topic to flourish musahrf ideas or we can say looking soft corners for Israel as US really want this friendship for its future games in this region.
Your love affair to Israel who is all time friend of India which you always considered as mother of problems for your country is showing some kind of your hypocrisy.
You have posed us an emotional history of Pak- Israel common points which were denied by other participants as it hold many false statements.
Ok if we some how believe that it is all correct then even why we are in need of Pak-Isr cordial relation.
You didnt mention for what purposes we should shake hand with a country who is closest friend of India for last 50 years specially in arms deals and intelligence services that were used against Pakistan many times.You and your scholar like boss always badly criticized mossad and RAW actions for Pakistan.
Do you want arms deals with them.?
You want to run a nuclear program with them?
You want to create business ties with them?
You are interested in industrial development programs with them.?
You want to share tourism with them?
So kindly explain on what purposes you want to make friendship with Israel that would surely benefit common Pakistanis from the mini super power of world who in daylight are attacking innocent Muslims of poor backgrounds with out any regrets and guilts.